Anyone who does not leave their name , their vote will not count. We need real people who are serious only.
Fewer Injuries
Better Foundations
Longer Breeding Time
More Entries
Fewer Drugs Used
Name & Address :
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VOTE HERE
Please select all that apply:
Positives:
Being the Leader of Industry
Better Mental Soundness
More Layoff During Growth Spurts
More Early Bird Futurities
Trainers who live in extreme heat/ cold weather will have more time
More Attention to Animal Welfare
Fewer Humane Animal Handling Issues
More Money Earning Progeny of Sires
Fewer Disposable Horses
Where are these horses after the futurity?
Negatives:
Breaking Tradition ?
Breeders possibly keeping them longer
This is a private poll in an effort to get the voices heard, that would like to see the NCHA be the leader in changing the age of futurities to a more animal compassionate contemporary group of four years old.
Street/PO
2008 Dr. Miller DVM offers the following statement:
"When I graduated from veterinary school a half a century ago, futurities existed only in racing. The orthopedic damage done to young horses has always been enormous. Today we have futurities in many disciplines and while it profits my profession and the pharmaceutical industry, it is devastating to the immature horses involved. Advancing futurities to age four will not eliminate the damage, but it will lessen it considerably. Thank you for your efforts to change this practice"
2008 CONVENTION: It sounds like it was very well received. Thank you all so much for your help & support , no way could I have done this with out all of you. I will keep this poll up for post on further development. So far so good :)
Special thanks to Executive Director: Jeff Hooper, Trainer/Showman/Aged Event Comm.Chairman: Matt Gaines and Glory A. Kurtz of www.allaboutcutting.com for helping me to get it on the floor at the convention.
DR Miller DVM for his time in putting together the quick letter for me and sending all the voters in. He did this as he was preparing to head to Europe. I hope his efforts for this cause will soon be realized in the changes to come. I plan on getting together with him in the future on this subject.
Goal : To put it up for a membership vote. Any thoughts you might have please feel free to post.
I will be using this to help with the research for the NCHA, so all members please post. We know that the general population/spectators want this change, now we need to hear from as many NCHA members as possible. In addition if you would have your vet put something in writing. All info. will be welcome.
Thank you
This is a post from the "CuttingHorseForum.com " 6/13/8
I'd be thrilled to see the NCHA lead the way for change, and not just follow what everyone else does, because it has always been done that way. If the NCHA does it, perhaps the others will follow. Great chance for the NCHA to stand out in the crowd.
One persons quote: 2008
For the sake of the horses, and to give us all the chance to see and own more lifetime performers, I would like to see the NCHA change the eligibility rule for horses in the aged events to age 4, beginning with the Futurity. In the vocabulary of the industry itself, we often call Futurity horses "babies". When the topics of injuries and long term vitality of horses is discussed, we have all heard horsemen and trainers much more knowledgeable than most of us, express the opinion that horses have to undergo the physical and mental stresses of training and completion too soon in their lives due to the pressure of meeting the Futurity schedule. We regularly see well-bred individuals advertised for breeding with the notation "unshown due to injury". The number of horses that start into training but wash out due to physical or mental stresses would probably surprise many of us. I think the real model of the cutting horse, and the ranch tradition he comes from, is a horse that is a sound, lifetime performer-not a 3 year Futurity winner. The cutting horse on the ranch usually doesn't start his real life's hard work until he is more mature, usually 4 or older. I think one of the surest ways to develop more and better horses for the long term, is to avoid the pressure of early training and completion until the the horse is more mature. We ought to take this step for the horses. Hopefully, the cutting horse industry can avoid the negative image that Thoroughbred racing creates when great 3 year old individuals break down in a public venue. If NCHA leads the way, I think the other cow horse and performance horse associations will follow.
Change to 4y.o.
Even if they are still sent to the trainer at 2, it will allow the trainer more time for lay offs.
Other thoughts by one voter:
The injury rate and pressure put on three year olds is extremely high. If the Futurity was changed to four year olds, with the final aged event year being for seven year olds, the horses would have more time to mature mentally and physically.
Even many of the past winners have not gone on to win any other majors events, and some have barely made the finals afterwards. Granted there are still horses who have won out of pure talent, but can you imagine watching great horses such as Chiquita Pistol or even most recently Highbrow CD show that the Futurity as a mature 4 year old? They would be phenomenal to watch. I find that the 5/6 finals are the most entertaining finals to watch. The horses who have made it have truly earned their spot to show against the best, most mature horses, and did not simply "get lucky" and get through a few runs to get there. If the Futurity was for 4 year olds, the finals would be wonderful to watch. The horses would be more confident and solid, and we would not be watching several of them run off or have complete wrecks because they are too immature. I think that raising the age of show horses by one year would benefit everyone: trainers, riders, owners, and even show producers.
Voters Quote;
For NCHA to start the trend of raising the age debate, would be great. These horses are our lives and we need to take care of them as best we can. I agree with moving the age from three to four because we see so many injuries and so many horses mature from three to four, therefore, competitions could be more exciting. Knowing what happened at the AQHA conventions, people say "NCHA is doing 'this' we should too". The NCHA is a leader in the equine performance industry and has many followers let's make this happen. I know working for the National Team Roping Horse Association we have set our Futurity age at 5 for crossover purposes and safety of young horses in team roping, let's start this trend and make a change for the better in the industry. If it can be done, the futurity money for the final three year old year should be allocated between the super stakes challenge and the summer spectacular that way the money is not making the decisions for the membership, safety and love of horses makes the best decision.
Voter Quote:
I love the LAE and the young horses, but being a small cutting-horse breeder, I also believe that if they don't turn out to be a star in cutting, that does not mean they don't have talent for other disciplines.
We (NTRHA) had a great debate over the age issues with our upcoming LAE. We took great pains to be sure and have a large cross section of our industry give their opinion on this very thing. With all of that said, overwhelmingly it was voted that our Futurity be for 5 year olds given our needs from our horses. Amazingly, the longevity and quality of the horses, especially with the Non Pro and Amateur groups of our association, was paramount in their thought process.
Additionally, a large number of our great rope horses come from these other market places. The value of these horses will continue to grow by keeping them healthy and sound to go on from their LAE careers. Our program has launched in dramatic fashion with participation from around the world... the only thing we don't have enough of is horse flesh. If we can keep em' sound and they don't make a superstar for you... they might just make a superstar for us! Everybody wins!
Email
Thanks to allaboutcutting.com
LIMITED AGE EVENT MEETING,
Chairman Matt Gaines brought up being allowed to show four horses of any age in the 5/6-year-old divisions at the NCHA Super Stakes and Summer Spectacular. No one opposed. The horse slaughter bill was brought up with Tim Frasier, Gainesville, Texas, saying we need to take the offensive to appease the groups and correct things we are doing wrong. “You can fight hype with the facts,” said Frasier, who agreed to be on a task force to study this problem. “We need to get ahead of the curve
and have the public aware that we are ahead of the curve.” Lindy Burch said we also needed a task force to work on a code of ethics and get educational material out there on how we treat horses and cattle. Also, the idea of changing the age of horses showing at the NCHA Futurity from
3 year olds to 4 year olds was discussed. The new site, www.equinepoll.com, was brought up by Frasier, saying there were 513 votes on the five-day-old poll, with 95.8 percent favoring looking at the change. Chairman Gaines said that the committee needed to do some research and study the pros and cons. “There could be lots of things we’re not thinking about right now,” said Gaines. The Convention will continue on Sunday with the Board of Directors Meeting at 8 a.m., followed by the General Membership Meeting.
We have received some great comments and I wish I could post them all.
Please tell all the NCHA members you know to please vote. We need the majority.
Voter Quote: 09/02/08
The barrel futurities are at 4. Surely we are as smart as the barrel world
2008
Personal Thought: If they (small group of people) don't want the change or to put it up for a vote, why not add the 4 year olds.
If they feel it will not help the horses to change the age. Then why not let the people who want to show them at 4 , show against the 3 years olds in the same class. I mean really, if they feel it won't help them, then it wont hurt them either, right? This should make everyone happy.
09/05/08
THEIR POOR LEGS
It's been quite a few years since the American Association of Equine Practitioners held its annual convention in Dallas, Texas. During this international meeting of veterinarians who treat horses, a Swedish colleague who knows me asked if there was some away he and two of his countrymen could get to Fort Worth one evening to see the Cutting Horse Futurity which was coincidentally being held at the same time as our meeting.
I said "sure" and found a local colleague who had a car, and that evening, after our last scientific session ended, the five of us drove to Fort Worth.
When we entered the area the competition was in progress. We watched several horses perform. Then, the oldest of the Swedish vets, a professor at the veterinary school in Upsula, Sweden, turned to me and said "We have heard about these horses and we wanted to see them. They are remarkable. It must take many years to teach a horse to do this". " But" I said " this is a futurity." " I do not know what this word means" the professor responded. I explained " a futurity is for colts. These are three year old."
The professor looked stunned, Then he turned to his countrymen and spoke to them in Swedish. They looked astonished. Then he turned back to me and said, " I have only two things to say. "One! What great skill to be able to teach a horse so young to perform like this. Two! What is happening to their poor poor legs.?" "You got it!" I said " You understand the whole thing!"
As an equine veterinarian I fully understand the terrible orthopedic damage most of these young horses suffer. I have had them as patients. I am very disturbed at those pharmaceutical companies that are advertising drugs for injection into damaged joints, and presenting them as a sort of "supplement" to preserve normal joint function. You preserve normal joint function with intelligent and humane training programs for horses mature enough to withstand the stress of such athletic training programs.
Voter Quote 09/22/08
I was a member of the NCHA in the past and plan to renew my membership again soon. I have never worried about foals being born early in the year because I never intended to try for a futurity horse due to the age limit, but if the age is changed to 4 y.o., then I believe I would try for a futurity. I have a filly that turned 3 y.o last April 2008 and I am starting her this October. There are too many great horses that are injured due to training so young. I just purchased a 6 y.o. broodmare with great breeding, confirmation, and mind that was injured training for a futurity. Waiting until they are 4 y.o. insures a sounder horse not only in a physical sense but mentally as well.
Keep in mind, these are just the ones who actually made it to the show.
There are thousands of more foals born to cutting. This is just from 230 cutting sires.
In the 2007 Futurity there were at least 1068 horses, (entering one or all classes.)
Of these 1068 horses there were approximately 230 sires.
223 of those sires, were 5,668 foals born. Which calculates out that 18.55 percent actually showed at the futurity. ( This does not include the 7 sires foals, who I have no correct data on.)
At the 2007 Futurity 1068 horses being shown. The next show was :
Abilene 212 horses from the futurity were shown.
SDCHA 15 horses from the futurity were shown.
Augusta 135 horses from the futurity were shown.
Tunica 155 horses from the futurity were shown.
SP/MH 105 horses from the futurity were shown.
PCCHA 28 horses from the futurity were shown.
Where are they?
34 of these sires had 49-166 foals each.
Can you imagine, one sire putting 166 foals on the ground in one year.
HERDA-Cloning-ET's
10/14/08
The minutes from the last meeting:
There was a discussion and support for the formation of a horse & cattle welfare Task Force.The Task Force will consist of members appointed by the president with approval by the EC. The Horse and Cattle Welfare Task Force members subsequently appointed include:Lindy Burch, Wylie Gustafson, Gail Holmes,
Janet Bowen , Kristen York, Jerry Black, Maben Thompson, Matt Gaines, and Bronc Wiloughby.
My Thoughts
I think Tim Frasier was the only one in favor of change, who also was the only one with animal welfare experience in helping other businesses and companies.
The EC decided to make it all directors and vets. WHY? None of the other task force mentioned in the minutes are that way, only this one. hmmmm
These riders have a combined earrings of almost 10 million. That's an average of over 1,000,000.00 each.
Can you say conflict or control of interest? You know it probably wasn't won at the weekend shows.
I will keep hoping the NCHA becomes more member friendly, when it does, it will become more animal friendly. Having a animal welfare task force could be a great step in the right direction.
If they put their energy in the offense instead of the defense.
Update: Since the 2008 convention all the votes have been for the change except 1 undecided and 2 against.
New poll results 7/2009
19 Vets voting 18 for 1 against
112 Trainers voting 109 for 3 against
227 Breeders voting 217 for 10 against
all other voters are owners/showing
It will be interesting to see what the NCHA/Vets on the task force come up with during their study.
This is from someone who has been in Equine Veterinarian Medicine for many years: 10/28/08
Nobody would question the fact that exercise, avoiding extremes of concussion and joint torsion, is beneficial to the young and growing individual. That has been well established in human medicine. But EXTREMES of exercise in adolescent children, as in high level gymnastics, is a common cause of lasting orthopedic injury. Humans with such damage can still lead a useful life.
When immature horses are subjected to the violent extremes of exercise that occur in cutting and reining, a MAJORITY will suffer lasting orthopedic injury, eliminating usefulness after maturity in many cases, except for reproduction.
Veterinarians treating these young horses know this. So do the breeders. So do the pharmaceutical companies gleefully selling drugs which TEMPORARILY relieve the pain in damaged joints.
MONEY is what perpetuates this cruelty. Let's be honest about this. There are lots of ways to make money. If we truly love horses we will use them in ways to minimize damage. Allowing them to physically mature before demanding extremes of performance is one thing we can do to reduce crippling them.
Of course there are other factors that are also under our control,: Working ground surfaces for example. We can also change the way we compete at horse shows.
Why should Western Pleasure horses or reiners be forced to work in an unnatural head down position? Why are cross country eventing courses so brutally dangerous to both horse and rider? Why must Tennessee Walkers be shown in the ridiculous exaggerated gaits that they re shown in?
We had better clean up our act or it will be cleaned up for us.
LOOK WHO IS
SPONSORING THIS EVENT
Borden Milk sponsors NCHA Futurity
Borden Milk, the title sponsor of the 2009 NCHA Super Stakes, has increased its commitment to the NCHA and will now be the title sponsor of the NCHA World Championship Futurity, beginning with the 2009 (Nov. 21 – Dec. 13) event. The $4 million Borden Milk/NCHA World Championship Futurity '
What happen to Ford, they just signed on, are they gone now?
6/22/09 Most of the voters all pretty much same the same thing. ( we should )
However this voter had something I have heard but not seen in writing from this site.
Thank you Sir for taking the time, it's very much appreciated.
As an old NCHA member from the early 70s to the mid 80s I've always enjoyed the Futurity and the mental and physical requirements placed on each individual horse and how different blood lines coped with those requirements. With increased numbers of breeders not taking enough diligence in their culling process, the current Futurity base seems to be faced with an overabundance of physical abnormalities. With even the best “drugs” these horses are not up to the challenge. This may seem to be a statement on keeping the age at 3 years, but it is not. As an old cutter who is now an FEI combined driver, we are using the same cutting horse bloodlines. But the sport of combined driving honors a horse's physical and mental abilities as they develop. Only horses approaching their mid teens are considered capable of competing at the international level. I think a change to 4 year old Futurities instead of any events at the 3 years old level would be a positive move for the NCHA and hopefully the NRCHA.
07/06/2009
Subj: RE: National Cutting Horse Association
I do not have the firsthand experience to make specific recommendations for cutting horses. However, I will state some general principles about problems I am concerned about. One of the most serious animal welfare concerns for many species is what I call "Biological System Overload." An animal is pushed past its biological limits and it breaks down. Biological system overload may occur if horses are pushed into performing before their bones are mature. In pigs and chickens, serious leg problems and lameness have been caused by indiscriminant genetic selection for lots of meat production.
Sincerely,
Temple Grandin
ColoState.Edu
7/20/2009
Can't thank you enough LuAnn Groves DVM of Texas for voting. The more great vets we have voting the better. http://www.thewholehorse.com
